What is Needed for the Snow Runs?

[OffRoadBum]

I was looking around at what you might need for snow. I have the unfortunate case of owning a jeep grand cherokee 2005. Until just a few minutes ago I diodnt know that there was a lift kit for it that you didnt have to cut the frame tubing for. I did bodywork for 15 years so it wouldnt be a prob, I just didnt want to hack up the rail if I didnt have to.

Superlift apparently has a 4 inch kit, that, tires, and a sensor or twoo should sum it up. With that 4 thousand dollars I cna buy an old yota lol...

Ive had it almost turned over before, it doesnt have a lot of ground clearance either.

Other than that, what is needed? Snow chains or studded tires? What kind of other equipment should you take with you when driving something like forest service roads with snow on them?

[Jerry]

I was looking around at what you might need for snow. I have the unfortunate case of owning a jeep grand cherokee 2005. Until just a few minutes ago I diodnt know that there was a lift kit for it that you didnt have to cut the frame tubing for. I did bodywork for 15 years so it wouldnt be a prob, I just didnt want to hack up the rail if I didnt have to.

Superlift apparently has a 4 inch kit, that, tires, and a sensor or twoo should sum it up. With that 4 thousand dollars I cna buy an old yota lol...

Ive had it almost turned over before, it doesnt have a lot of ground clearance either.

Other than that, what is needed? Snow chains or studded tires? What kind of other equipment should you take with you when driving something like forest service roads with snow on them?

My 2 cents for what it's worth:

Compact snow and ice = studded snow tires
Winter highway driving = studded snow or studded AT tires
Snowy forest roads = AT or studded AT tires
Heavy snow = MT tires

1. Snow tires with a lot of siping (multiple slits) work excellent on compact snow and ice. Check out the tread design of Nokian Tires, the best snow and ice tires in the world. Add studs and you will have the best for compact snow and ice. However, studded tires are not as safe as non-studded tires on dry pavement because the studs keep the rubber from making full contact with the road. Stopping distances may be longer and cornering may be less secure. We run studded Nokian tires on my wife's Ford Escape and ran them on our Grand Cherokee before that. We live in Yakima and cross Snoqualmie Pass at least once a month and drive into the mountains near Chinook Pass once or twice every month so we see plenty of snow driving. We have not noticed a difference in handling with the Nokian studded tires, but we are OLD and we drive very slow so as not to fall over sideways when we turn the wheel .

2. All terrain tires, such as BFG AT's, work okay on compact snow (not ice) because they have factory siping that allows for better contact between the tire and the snow. The moderately more aggressive tread helps when you get into 6"-8" deep fresh or wet snow. You may want to lower your air pressure, thus allowing for more tread contact with the snow. BFG AT's, as well as some other brands, are built with a 3-ply sidewall that help support the vehicle after you have aired down. We have run BFG AT's year-around on our Grand Cherokee (pre-Nokian), Ford Escape (pre-Nokian) and F150. They are an excellent all-around tire and I highly recommend them for most backroad driving situations. They are not, however, a rain tire. Despite their more aggressive tread design they are just as prone to hydroplaning as a standard highway tread.

2. Deep snow requires a little study. It can be powder and blow away with the mere movement of the vehicle or it can be 3' deep with a frozen crust on top. Too aggressive a tread and you might dig in, too light a tread and you will not get traction. Some guys run nearly bald off-road tires on snow, some run very aggressive tread, it just depends on the circumstances. We run siped MT tires on our modified vehicles and sometimes that works great in the snow and sometimes not so great. We have our tire supplier sipe our MT tires when they are new, i.e. cut slices across the tread.

3. Carry chains for emergencies, but don't plan on using them. Our 97 Grand Cherokee owners manual said, "Do not use tire chains." I suppose they were worried about them tangling up with the brake lines or dinging up the fender wells. We always carried them, but never needed to install them. It would probably be a different story for a modified GC.

[warrpath]

my rigs (that play in the snow) are highly modified, i have winches, big tires, on board air (drop tire pressure= wider foot print), lockers (good in deep snow, not so much on ice lol), but there are a few things that everyone should carry in the snow.

food
water
extra clothes
fire starter
flashlight
cat litter (works for traction)
tire chains (even for larger tires)

ontop of the usual offroad items

[zjsheller]

My 2 cents for what it's worth:

Compact snow and ice = studded snow tires
Winter highway driving = studded snow or studded AT tires
Snowy forest roads = AT or studded AT tires
Heavy snow = MT tires

1. Snow tires with a lot of siping (multiple slits) work excellent on compact snow and ice. Check out the tread design of Nokian Tires, the best snow and ice tires in the world. Add studs and you will have the best for compact snow and ice. However, studded tires are not as safe as non-studded tires on dry pavement because the studs keep the rubber from making full contact with the road. Stopping distances may be longer and cornering may be less secure. We run studded Nokian tires on my wife's Ford Escape and ran them on our Grand Cherokee before that. We live in Yakima and cross Snoqualmie Pass at least once a month and drive into the mountains near Chinook Pass once or twice every month so we see plenty of snow driving. We have not noticed a difference in handling with the Nokian studded tires, but we are OLD and we drive very slow so as not to fall over sideways when we turn the wheel .

2. All terrain tires, such as BFG AT's, work okay on compact snow (not ice) because they have factory siping that allows for better contact between the tire and the snow. The moderately more aggressive tread helps when you get into 6"-8" deep fresh or wet snow. You may want to lower your air pressure, thus allowing for more tread contact with the snow. BFG AT's, as well as some other brands, are built with a 3-ply sidewall that help support the vehicle after you have aired down. We have run BFG AT's year-around on our Grand Cherokee (pre-Nokian), Ford Escape (pre-Nokian) and F150. They are an excellent all-around tire and I highly recommend them for most backroad driving situations. They are not, however, a rain tire. Despite their more aggressive tread design they are just as prone to hydroplaning as a standard highway tread.

2. Deep snow requires a little study. It can be powder and blow away with the mere movement of the vehicle or it can be 3' deep with a frozen crust on top. Too aggressive a tread and you might dig in, too light a tread and you will not get traction. Some guys run nearly bald off-road tires on snow, some run very aggressive tread, it just depends on the circumstances. We run siped MT tires on our modified vehicles and sometimes that works great in the snow and sometimes not so great. We have our tire supplier sipe our MT tires when they are new, i.e. cut slices across the tread.

3. Carry chains for emergencies, but don't plan on using them. Our 97 Grand Cherokee owners manual said, "Do not use tire chains." I suppose they were worried about them tangling up with the brake lines or dinging up the fender wells. We always carried them, but never needed to install them. It would probably be a different story for a modified GC.

Good information. The BFG a/t KO qualifies as a winter traction device as long as it isn't a 10 ply. Another great choice is the Goodyear Silent Armor Pro Grade. It qualifies as a traction device and has better snow and rain traction than the BFG. Another neat feature of the GY is it comes with 2 years of roadside assistance as well as off-road assistance. Goodyear will actually send a tow truck to winch you out if stuck in mud or snow (assuming the driver can get to you).
The Nokian tires are hands down the best tires made for on-road driving. They are offered in studded and non-studded versions. Make sure the Nokians you are looking at are winter traction rated. They make several different tires that aren't winter traction rated.

[LoudMusic]

What is Needed for the Snow Runs?

Yikes - might want to consult your doctor about that one.

[zjsheller]

Yikes - might want to consult your doctor about that one.

?

[PNW-Colorado]

Yikes - might want to consult your doctor about that one.

Funny... I get it.

So here is the deal for what you might need. All good info left on here for already for what would help in the snow. I will add to this what lifetedfrontier and I use for our trips.

We wait for the snow every winter with great anticipation for our nightly snow runs. We both have mildly lifted "street" trucks that we use for our enjoyment in the snow. I say streets trucks cause they are our daily drivers and we are always concerned about any damage that may happen to the trucks while we are out playing or even on a few day offroad adventure.

We rarely do day runs in the snow and have done several night runs. I personaly have several thousand miles on my truck that have been all offroad and the majority in the snow. The first winter we would go all the time and had really good luck with just tow straps and shovels for recovery. There is a bit of an art at "snatching" someone out who is stuck. It is amazing how much just digging the snow away from the tires and frame when stuck helps too, you usually can just drive out of your stuck position. This was very tiring and time consuming. Definitely do not want to go alone. You always want to take two other rigs with you. That way if you get another rig stuck trying to get you out you always have a way out. We always tried to think ahead and see what would be needed to get the pull truck out if it were to get stuck getting the initial stuck rig out. Airing down is a huge advantage too. It gives much better traction. You will need a good air setup to air back up when leaving the woods. Try the baisic Viar setup with compressor and cary bag. Or you can find a similar setup like I did at Costco for 50 dollars. Or look up Smittybilt Max Volume 50 Portable Air Compressor this is the same one as Costco but with the Smitybilt name.

The other trick to snow runs in the deep snow is momentum and no wheel spin. Not speed just momentum with good traction. As soon as you are in a position to be stuck and you spin your drive tires you are usually doomed to digging or being pulled out. As soon as you spin the snow under your tires now is compacted snow with ice under the tire. No traction here. So you need to dig the tires clear so that they can roll. Cause what usually happens is the smallest obstruction such as a clump of snow that the tires can't roll over will cause you not to move. Just dig it clear and you can usually get out really easy. Just remember you need momentum now again to be on the move. Don't pause or stop and you most likely are on your way again. Chains if you wanna use them can really give you an advantage too.

We have done several runs where the snow has been up above the height of out tires and more, making fresh tracks and blazzing trail. Snow flying over the windshield making it hard to see.

If you wanna push the envelope even more like we have been doing last year I stongly suggest getting a winch. Not only that but it give you much added security for those times you want to go alone. Tree savers and snatch blocks then become esential gear for recovery. However you still want to cary the straps and shovel. It is so much less work and strain on the winch and vehicle just getting the snow dug away from the stuck rig. It is amazing how the snow while being soft forgiving, it is like cement when trying to pull the vehicle in such a manner that the snow is actually got you high centered on the frame cause it is compacted under your frame or behind your tires.

Having some sort of air supply is esential, and I cant stress this enough. One you really do need to air down for traction in deep snow. I air down to eight pounds and have never blown a bead off a tire. However friends have and my little compressor has got tires back on. This was not easy but with a ratchet tie down and a valve core remover really helped. These are things I keep in my compressor bag along with extra valve cores and some tire plugs. Another thing that is usefull that I am gonna start carying is some starting fluid and a ligher. You can spray a quick spray into a tire off the bead and then light the lighter, spray the starting fluid across the flame into the tires "quickly" to light the fluid in the tire and boom, tire is now on. I have experimented with this at the shop and is actually quite easy to do. Sounds more dangerous and iresponsible than it actually is.

As I keep typing I think of more things to have and it seems I keep rambling, but I hope I am giving you some good ideas here.

As I mentioned earlier about the straps. Be sure to get ones with a loop at each end and not hooks. Be sure to buy some 3/4 inch pin shackles. It doesn't matter if they are chinese or american, either will wotk fine. If I remember right chinese are rated at 3 times the working load stamped on the shackle. Where american ones are rated at 4 times the rating on the shackle. You wanna use these for ataching to other rigs if you can use them. Most factory recovery hooks will allow you to slide the loop on the strap over them.

This is a ton of info and "double" talk I know but I hope it makes sense. If anyone is interested in joining us in our runs up the mountain let me know. I would be happy to show anyone where we go. We usually go up the logging roads out of Toutle Washington and climb to just under 5000 feet at the base of the mountain. A few of us have winches now so no one is ever "really" stuck.

[backwoods3]

Come join us on the 27th! We are going up to Rockport for a snow run! should be fun and SAFE!